Essential Tennis Podcast #175
Welcome to the Essential Tennis podcast. If you love tennis and want to improve your game, this podcast is for you. Whether its technique, strategy, equipment, or the mental game, tennis professional Ian Westermann is here to make you a better player. And now, heres Ian.

Ian Westermann: Hi and welcome to the Essential Tennis podcast, your place for free experts tennis instruction that can truly help you improve your game. Todays episode of the podcast is brought to you by Tennis Express.

Thank you ver y much for downloading todays episode of the show. Im still on the road with my mobile recording equipment here, so I apologize for the intro here. Audio quality isnt quite what it usually is, but Ill be back at home later this week and looking forward to a couple of new episodes beginning with an interview with Will Hamilton of FuzzyYellowBalls.com. Thats going to be next weeks show. Going to be recording that late this week, and I actually already have an interview lined up for the next show after that. Im going to have Dave the Kaz Kazlowski back on the podcast 2 episodes from this episodes.

So 2 really great interviews coming up. Im looking forward to those very much, and in the meantime please enjoy todays episode which is a rebroadcast. Its a great interview with Dr. Patrick Cohn, a mental toughness expert. One of my favorite guests on the show. So please enjoy this replay, and I look forward to getting back in front of the mic for next week with Will Hamilton. So lets go ahead and get to todays episode. Sit back, relax, and get ready for some great tennis instruction.

My guest today on the podcast is Dr. Patrick Cohn. He is a master of mental game coach, and is the author of SportsPsychologyTennis.com. He also has a podcast dedicated to mental toughness in tennis which is called the tennis psychology podcast. I definitely suggest that all of you listening go check it out. Its a great show. And Dr. Cohn, I think youve done what 70 something episodes now?

Dr. Patrick Cohn: Yeah, I think we are up to about 70 episodes. Really short episodes. Just Q&A. People send in questions or we use survey questions and we only take about 3 or 4 minutes to answer the questions so they are real short.

Ian Westermann: Its a great resource. And mental toughness questions are one of the most common on my show. So I know that my listeners are interested in that topic. I went and checked out your website before we started recording here, and youve got them all archived which is great. So a lot of good topics and I definitely recommend that all my listeners go check it out. Dr. Cohn, before we get to our questions, can you please tell those of my listeners who maybe havent heard our previous shows, which by the way, you should definitely go check those out. Can you please give a little bit of background on yourself for those that arent familiar with you yet?
Dr. Patrick Cohn:Im primarily a mental coach. Thats all I do is work on the mental game. Ive been working with junior tennis players for about 4 or 5 years.But Ive been involved in mental coaching for over 20 years now. And the main website that we have is peaksports.com and thats the mother ship. But we also have
sportspsychologytennis.com which is devoted to tournament tennis players and helping tournament tennis players improve their mental game.So thats my specialty. I only work specifically on helping players with the mental game.
Ian Westermann:Awesome. Its a great topic for tennis players. Im happy to have you on the show again. Thanks for spending your time with me and my listeners.
Dr. Patrick Cohn: No problem. Glad to join you.
Ian Westermann: Alright, lets go ahead and start answering some questions. And Ive got four of them here. Two of them are within the same category. Well go ahead and start with that.
It has to do with the area of choking which I know you are very familiar with in a lot of different areas and sports that you work with.So Ill go ahead and read those questions quickly and then well talk about it.

The first person who asked about choking was Karen in Cali. She is a 4.0 player. She wrote to me and said, “Ive been in matches where I am up 5-2 in the first set and I end up losing the first set in a tiebreak. This has happened to me three times now. Im wondering if its my mental toughness that is to blame such that I get tight and I dont go for my shots as much when Im leading. Or my opponents just figure me out.

And then Robert in in Sweden, a 3.5 player, wrote and said, “When Im playing matches on a recreational basis, I often find myself loosening my grip on the match when Im ahead. Typically this is after winning the first set relatively easily and then losing the second set after playing really bad tennis. I know of the term choking and think thats what is in play here but I cant get out of this bad mental state.”
So Dr. Cohn, what do you think? How do we avoid playing well initially and then choking, giving away the match and starting to play poorly?
Dr. Patrick Cohn: Great question that you are getting from your listeners and your readers.
Let me throw out some terms first because I dont want to automatically assume that these people that are writing in are choking. Because we use choking a lot and I think tennis players can understand choking.
So I think what we want to start to talk about Ian is number one, what is choking? What is a comfort zone which I think maybe in play here. And we want to talk about momentum.
Those are three psychological characteristics that can happen during the match. And I believe first of all, you have to take a look at whats the difference between being in a comfort zone and choking. And can they be related in some way?

So first of all, choking to me is a response to extreme pressure that an athlete feels or places on him or herself.We have to understand that pressure doesnt come from the We have to understand that pressure doesnt come from the 2, thats not pressure in itself. Its how you interpret what is going on for you in that match. And thats really where the source of pressure comes from.

People talk about pressure situation, pressure points. They are only pressure if you perceive it in that way. And you put expectations and you put pressure on yourself. So typically choking is when youre putting a lot of pressure on yourself and you start to tighten up and lose what I call trust in your skills; trust in your strokes.
So that can be one explanation for whats going on. But typically, for me, choking it doesnt happen when you are in command of the match, right?
To me, when you are in command of the match, its typically a comfort zone issue. Now not to many people talk about comfort zone, but Im very familiar with comfort zone. And in any situation, when we are talking about a comfort zone, is when you have a lead on your opponents. And maybe you are a little bit uncomfortable with that lead. Maybe you didnt expect to be up 5-2 in the first set.

And thats where the term comfort zone comes from. It comes from where you have a specific expectation about how you think you are supposed to play the match. Who is supposed to be leading. Who is supposed to be winning the match. Its based on a lot of pre-conceived expectations that you have.

Typically when a player gets up 5-2 and is in command, they are playing well. There is no reason to have a choking response.I think some of the tension comes in, but its more about protecting the lead. When a athlete or when a tennis player is in the lead– even a team can do this– when a team is in the lead and they start protecting the lead, they dont play their normal style of tennis.

In addition to not playing their normal style which got them in the lead in first place, they are starting to worry about „dont mess this up. Now, the dont mess up can lead to some of the getting tight. Some of the tension. Maybe some anxiety and now you arent going for shots. You are trying to play safe. I also call it, you are playing more defensively.
Not from a strategy position, but more defensively from an attitude type mentality such as dont miss the shot. Dont hit it long. Dont double fault. So you start looking at what not to do which can cause you to tighten as well.
Now, does that sound like a choking response or does that sound like you are protecting your lead? Thats the question I think.
Ian Westermann: Thats interesting. I dont think that Ive ever heard anybody raise it quite that way as far as splitting those two things up into two separate categories? I think thats really interesting.
Ive heard a lot of other people describe what you are talking about. They are protecting the lead as playing not to lose as opposed to playing to win. Does that sound about right?
Dr. Patrick Cohn: Yes. I would say that falls under the same category. Playing not to lose.
In this case,its playing not to screw up a lead, right? Because you are not losing. You are playing to not mess up the lead. Lets just get through the match.

The other concept which Ill throw in the mix is momentum. As you know and Im sure youve talked about on your podcast quite a bit is the importance of this physiological momentum. When you give an opponent momentum, and you get loose and you drop a couple of games. And you give them the momentum shifts to your opponents, that can also change the dynamics of what is going on within the set itself.

If you get a little bit protective because of this comfort zone, and you want to sit on the lead, then you give up the momentum, the momentum switches to your opponent. Now your opponent has confidence and now you are reeling because you had a 5-2 lead and it just slipped away to a 5-4 lead.

That can also change the dynamics completely of the match as well. So I dont want your listeners to strictly look at it as “Im choking. I blew a 5-2 lead.” There is lots of other factors that can go into it such as changes in momentum. Comfort zone and sitting on the lead. It could be that you perceive it as a pressure situation and tighten up and do choke in that situation.

Ian Westermann: Going back to comfort zone, you talked about how very often players get outside of their comfort zone because maybe whatever is happening within the match, doesnt really line up with what they are expectations were going into it.

Can you give some tips on – what should our expectations be? Should we go into the match with positive expectations? Should we go into a match with kind of a neutral feeling with no expectations? From a mental toughness standpoint, what is the best way to handle that?
Dr. Patrick Cohn: Good point. First of all, my theory is that you dont want to have expectations about who is supposed to win or lose a match. You want to go in and play your style of tennis that is going to be suitable for you. And understand your opponents weaknesses and base your style of tennis on what your strengths are and what your opponents weaknesses are.

So, thats the first thing. You really dont want expectations, you want a high level of confidence. And Ive talked about this with you on previous shows that my formula that I talk about is having no expectations yet having high confidence. So if you go into a match and you think, I havent beat this person in 3 previous matches. Its going to be a really close match. There is not a great probability that Im going to win the match. really close match. There is not a great probability that Im going to win the match. 2, thats where the protective defensive behavior comes in because it doesnt match what you previously thought about. Because for whatever reason, you are up and you didnt expect it to be that easy. You didnt expect youd be up 5-2.

So thats when you go, wow, I could win the first set. And you slam on the breaks and play protective.Thats the example. So, step number one we could say is dont have any expectations at all about who is supposed to win the match and how easily the match is going to go.

Step number two, and its probably even more important… When you realize you are leading and you start to think dont mess it up. Dont screw this up, you have this in hand. Thats when you have to make the adjustment mentally.

You have to tell yourself, keep going for your shots. Keep playing the same style that you played with that got you in this position. Play one point at a time and lets make sure I stay aggressive and do the things that got me in this position in the first place. So, on one side Ian is the player who is going to say dont hit it out. Dont double fault. Make sure you pull this set out.

On the other hand is the other player who is trying to finish it out strongly. Keep playing aggressive and pressure your opponent into making mistakes off the court, someone thats being more in that offensive mindset.

So essentially, and I dont mean to simplify this, instead of going defense, you have on the stay on the offensive mentally. Im not so much talking about strategy now. But Im saying you have to be aware when you go into protect mode. And be able to counter that and make the adjustment and stay on the offense mentally.
Ian Westermann: So it sounds from a mental perspective, going into a match with preconceived notions or expectations is never really a great thing, is it?
Dr. Patrick Cohn:No. It doesnt help.
Ian Westermann: Great. Thanks for the explanation. I enjoy talking about that.Lets go ahead and go to our next one. Weve got two more quick ones to get too.
Next up is Andy in Cali, he wrote and said, “Im a junior player and have sort of a mental toughness problem. Whenever Im playing a match or trying something new, I will sometimes not execute a certain shot correctly, miss it and try to fix the problem. If I do fix the problem, all is well. But if I dont, I continue trying to fix it. After several attempts to remedy the problem, I end up getting down on myself and getting frustrated. So basically, if I dont mess up, I dont get mad. But if I do mess up, I do get mad. Is there any way to develop an attitude to avoid getting mad when I mess up?
Dr. Patrick Cohn: You must have hand picked this question for me.
Ian Westermann: I didnt, but its a good one. You and I, I remember talked about perfectionism and this kind of attitude previously. But we didnt go into much depth, so Im looking forward to the explanation there.

Dr. Patrick Cohn: So let me start with a short story. I was warming up with my daughter who plays in the 12-14 group here in Florida. She is working at making some changes to her serve.

She said, “Can you take a look at what Im doing here.” And I said, “No. A warm up is a warm up. Do not practice in your warm up. Its the time to get loose and to get ready.” The same goes for the match. When you are in a match, its not time to fix anything because then you are just over analyzing your game.

If its broken, and you are trying to fix it, its not going to get better by the end of the match most likely. Unless its a really tiny adjustment that you can make, like better foot work.I dont ever want my students to get into the fix it mode, and try to correct something that they think is wrong which may not need correcting in the first place, right? So, what do you do in that situation? My recommendation is simple. After you make a mistake, just take the swing that you wanted and feel the shot that you wanted and then just let it go.

So thats for the over analysis part. So once youve done that, and you said youll fix it in your next practice, thats really what I want you to do is say, “Ill fix it in my next practice, lets get through the match.” My recommendation is go to your go to shot for example– go to your bread and butter shot. Dont feel that you have to keep going back to the well if that shot isnt working. Or if your top spin backhand isnt working, go to the slice. Go to something that you can get through the match which is going to be functional and work for you.
So thats another way to deal with this over analysis– I need to fix it now. You dont need to fix it now. Just find the stroke that is working and get through the match. As opposed to getting mad, thats kind of a completely different situation for me. Because there are two situations we are talking about. Were talking about the over analysis of trying to fix something in the middle of the match. And then we are talking about getting mad and emotionally getting upset with yourself.

I break it down into the two different mental games. As far as getting mad, it starts once again and I go back to expectations, it starts with your expectations. If you expect to make no errors or execute all your routine shots for example and you dont, its going to be a lot easier for you to become frustrated with yourself.

The second part of that is how you react to that. How you react or behave after the error– what you are thinking. What most people dont consider is, they look at it as a stimulus response. If I miss a routine shot, I should automatically be upset. If I double fault, I should automatically be upset. If I miss an easy volley, I should automatically be upset.

What they dont get is what happens in between the error and their emotional reaction is what they are thinking about that error. This comes straight out of the book of a psychologist named [inaudible] and Ive kind of adapted some of his work. But basically what it is saying, youre thinking or your belief process about the error that ultimately causes you to be frustrated.

Its no t the fact that you made an error. Ellis would say, people are not upset by things that happened to them like mistakes or things they do. They are upset by how they think about those things. So it goes back to dealing with your thinking process, your reaction and your belief.

So instead of thinking I should never double fault, this really stinks. You need to change that thinking to make the mistake okay in your mind temporarily. Thats how I simplify it. How can you make that mistake in your mind okay. Weknow its not okay, but we need to make it OK so you can play the next point without the monkey on the back. My work with that player, I might say, “Alright, double faults happen. Youre not perfect. Youre not a machine. Pros make double faults.”

I was w atching Klojsters and she double faulted this morning. She didnt let it get to her and bother her on the next service. So, you have to be able to rationalize with yourself so that you can have a better emotional reaction.So its kind of like, its a two pronged approach. The expectations that you take into the match to set you up for feeling frustrated, and then also, you have to work with your thought process and your belief system about those errors in that moment, so that you have something different to go to. Ian Westermann: I find that as a teacher and a coach, I think that is one of the things to work with students on. Especially those that are really motivated and really working hard and they want to do their best is that they come out to perform hopefully to the best of their ability. And yet, when they make mistakes, I think its very difficult for somebody with that kind of goal for that day in tennis to be OK with screwing up and not doing something to the absolute best of their ability.Its a difficult balance, isnt it?

Dr. Patrick Cohn: Absolutely. But Im going to add something to what you just said, Im sure you worked with players, perfectionists, you are working on a stroke with them. Theyve made an adjustment and they are just hitting everything into the bottom of the net.
But worse than that, they cant work through that change with you. They are so emotional distraught, that the lesson is done. You cant work with that player because theyve checked out emotions that have been checked out from the lesson and they think they are inadequate. Im sure youve been there, right?
Ian Westermann: Absolutely. And in a competitive setting, how many times have you seen a player just give away a match due to that kind of attitude as well?
Dr. Patrick Cohn: Same thing. Well if they do it in practice, you know its going to be three times as bad in the match. If I see that going on in practice, I know that in a match situation, its going to be even tougher for them to control that. They do absolutely check out.
A lot of the times, thats where the tanking response comes from. Thats what Ive seen, A lot of the times, thats where the tanking response comes from. Thats what Ive seen, 5 and theyll be so upset and distraught that theyll tank the second set because they are so upset.
Ian Westermann: Sure.
Dr. Patrick Cohn:I dont know if I answered your question, but if you could go back and give me the question again or thefollow up on that, Id be happy.
Ian Westermann: I think we covered it pretty well. We have one more to get to still, so Id actually like to move on if thats okay. Good conversation on that. I know thats going to be helpful for Andy.

Lastly, weve got a question from Jeannie and Im curious to see your answer to this one. She wrote and said, “I have a problem that I struggle with when winning. I start to feel sorry for my opponent. I was in a 3.5 singles tournament a couple of years ago, won the first set easily 6-1, my significantly younger opponent was hitting fiercely but many of the shots were going out.
Im a steady, with good mental toughness except for this feeling sorry business. After the first set, which I won 6-1, the opponent was obviously mentally distressed. She took a bathroom break, she came back and she was hitting without pace and very loopy. I took the bait and went for winners that I shouldnt have.

She won 6-4, same with the 3rd set. She looked so happy at the end, I felt that I had done a good deed in losing. But a few hours later, I realized what I had done. Is this something youve ever dealt with? Having students who actually had sympathy for an opponent?

Dr. Patrick Cohn: Yes. Its not quite as common of question that I get. This is a little bit off the beaten track.I have dealt with this. Jeannie, bottom line is you are too nice. Im sure you are a really nice lady and thats part of the problem.

What shes saying here, feeling sorry for your opponent, that means you care too much about really what other thing. In other words, I believe and Im making some assumptions, that Jeannie wants to be liked by others. Jeannie likes that respect and we call it social approval in my work.

The moment you start feeling sorry for an opponent, what you are saying is “I want that person to do well. I want that person to like me.” You have to become a competitor. When you step on that court, you cant feel sorry for your opponent. And Ive heard this from some of the younger junior tennis players that Ive worked with, is they are friends with some of them. Another reason is, maybe she doesnt want to upset the friendship as well. And once again, it goes back to wanting to be perceived as nice. Worrying about how others perceive them. And really doesnt want to rock the boat.

The bottom line, Im just setting some ground work for my answer, when you step on the court, you have to transform into a competitor. You are no longer the street person or the student. Now you are the warrior tennis player. I often go back and I talk about an example from a movie with Russell Crow who is called the Gladiator. What does Russell Crow do before he goes in the competition every time? He grabs the sand and hell start rubbing it in his hands. And you see this face come over him like hes transforming into this competitor. He is no longer this nice guy.

This is what Jeannie has to understand. You do not have to be a nice girl when it comes to playing and competing and being competitive. This is a generalization, girls are going to have more of an issue with this then I think men.

Ian Westermann: Thats interesting. Jeannie and I have exchanged some emails back and forth, and a secondary question of her was, do you feel like this is more of a female personality trait? I wasnt going to ask you actually because I didnt want to throw you under the bus with that question. But its interesting that you bring it up. Dr. Patrick Cohn: It is a generalization. But typically when working with my female students, they are more in tune with others feelings. And what others are perceiving and what others are feeling about them.
Ian Westermann: Interesting.
Dr. Patrick Cohn: Its not across the board, but I do see some of those commonalities. Once again, you dont have to be nice to be a competitor and go out there and perform your best. You have to put aside friendships. Is this a friend that she is playing?
Ian Westermann: This was not.
Dr. Patrick Cohn: OK. It may even get more difficult with friends or people that she knows. But to be a competitor, you have to go out there and put the medal to the metal and not worry about what your opponent is feeling. Because feeling sorry for your opponent, what you are really saying is Im beating you badly and you must feel really bad.

Ian Westermann: And I feel bad about that. Interesting. Dr. Cohn, with that we are going to wrap things up and I want to thank you very much for your time and answering these questions. Its been great to have you on the show once again and I definitely encourage my listeners to go back and check out the other shows that Dr. Cohn have done together at essentialtennis.com podcast and go subscribe to Dr. Cohns podcast as well on iTunes. Its definitely worth checking out. Lots of good, free information there.

Again, its called The Tennis Psychology Podcast and you can check it out on his website sportspsychologytennis.com. Dr. Cohn, thanks again for being on the show. Its been great having you.
Dr. Patrick Cohn: Thanks for having me, Ian.
Ian Westermann: That does it for episode 154 of the Essential Tennis Podcast. Thank you very much for joining me on todays show. I really appreciate having you as a listener. And if youd like to give me some feedback on this episode or if you have any follow up questions about anything that Dr. Cohn and I talked about. Any comments, anything that you disagree about, Id love to hear from you.

All you have to do is go to essentialtennis.com podcast, go to this episode, 154, and leave a comment. Id love to read it and reply and I like to hear what you guys are thinking after each of these episodes.
Now Id like to read two comments that were left about last weeks show, #153. We talked about some forehand myths and I gave several drills to improve your forehand. Jerry said, “Hi Ian, what are the targets for the shots hit in the Spanish drill?” The Spanish drill is an excellent practice drill, working on positioning.

Jerry, typically when I have students do the Spanish drill, I dont give them specific targets, instead we really focus in on footwork, positioning correctly– every ball should be struck at a comfortable spot around waist height. And we focus on technique. So this is a drill or a time during a lesson or practice where my student is really focusing in on those elements. Obviously, ultimately where the ball goes is important, but we are really focusing just on those elements right now.

The only instruction I really give is dont hit me because Im standing in the court in front of them. I usually tell them to just hit the ball straight ahead and focus on the positioning and the technique at this point.

Secondly, I want to read a comment from Lloyd. Lloyd and I went back and forth several times in the comments for episode 153. He had some good observations. And something I want to address real quickly.

He wrote and said, “Nadal starts his forehand with the racket up, does a part ial C, and then the racket head definitely slows down a bit before he lays his wrist back to buggy whip the racket head. You can the buggy whip a small C but he doesnt have his wrist open as far as it can go until he does the whip.

Ive seen this buggy w hip used by a number of pros when I slow mo their shots with my PVR. Is there a reason why you advise against incorporating a buggy whip since this technique adds a lot of racket head speed?”

I wrote a good response to Lloyd there in the comments and you can go check that out. He responded again as we went back and forth a couple of different times. And basically my response to Lloyd is that, I believe its not so much that lane, the wrist and the hand back creates racket head speed. I believe that the lane back of the hand and the wrist is there because of the huge acceleration because of the racket head speed. Because Nadal is accelerating so aggressively and his arm is relaxed as he does so. As the Kinetic chain starts to unwind towards the ball and the hand, the wrist and the forehand are the last parts to kind of get dragged behind the body as the acceleration starts towards the ball. Because there is that big acceleration of the core forward towards the point of contact, the hand, because it is relaxed naturally, lays back and then he actively uses that kind of load of his forearm and hand and wrist to accelerate towards the point of contact.
So this is a technique that I believe as players start to get more advanced and as it becomes appropriate for them to start accelerating faster, I think its something that most players will start to naturally develop. Its something that is a detail. Its a small piece in the overall puzzle of a good forehand ground stroke. And I think its a relatively advanced technique that again, starts to develop as a player develops and as he or she starts to accelerate faster and hit more aggressively.

So its not something that I specifically have ever taught because I think there are just much more important technical elements that need to be in place first before ever worrying about creating racket head speed as fast as possible. Most of you listening are not at a level yet where this is something you should be concerned about.So Id focus on more important fundamental things first.

And as far as the racket slowing down first and this is kind of where we had our back and forth, in really slow motion, it does decelerate a little bit as its dropping and the hand is laying back.

But you have to keep in mind, thats relative. When you look at Nadals forehand in how ever many hundred frames per second, and it starts to slow down like what Lloyd is talking about, you have to keep in mind that its slowing down relative to its overall speed of swing which is massive. Its huge.

Its a speed that we cant really comprehend– not even myself as a 5.0 player. He accelerates way faster than I do and most of you listening are 3.5, 4.0 level players or maybe below that.

And so, in my opinion, this is just something that really shou ldnt even be considered by recreational players. Definitely not at first– maybe once you start getting towards high 4.0 or 4.5, you can maybe start thinking about this and taking a look at it.

But I know that most of my listeners arent up to that level yet, so its something that I feel is not essential. So, you can go read all of my comments at essentialtennis.com podcast. And again, that was for episode 153.

Jerry and Lloyd, thank you both for your comments. Its great conversing with both of you on the website. If you have any comments about todays show, go leave them for episode 154.Id love to respond to those. Alright, that does it for todays show. Thanks for listening everybody. Take care and good luck with your tennis.